Oh - look - I'm only trying to make an analogy.
What's an analogy? It's not some psykological...?
I just want you to pretend that you know somebody, and to pretend
for a brief moment that it doesn't matter - no, that you have not
yet gotten around to actually feeling anything for this person...
Like my grandmother!
Yes! Somebody like your grandmother.
But then I would have to be very young, wouldn't I?
Very young? Why would you...?
Cause if I was older, I would probably know her, wouldn't I?
Waddayamean!? Can't you know somebody... can't you know that somebody
exists and at the same time not be aware of who that person is?
I don't think so...
Ah! So, what you're saying is if you know somebody exists, you also
know who he or she is?! What about kings and queens and presidents
- you've never met any of those, and you'ld still claim you know who
Alright. Ok. What if your mother died 3 months ago...
She died 5 years ago. And I don't like...
Yes, but imagine she died... no... ok, so we say she died 5 years
But she did! And I don't like you bringing...
Ok, listen. Your mother died 5 years ago. And, what I propose is I
come to you yesterday - not today and not tomorrow - and show you
a piece of evidence - indesputable evidence - to the fact that your
mother is still alive and living in a place you've never heard of,
together with people you've never heard of, and...
She would have called me! She would have called me!
... and she has never called you in the time she... in the time you
have thought her dead...
I don't like you bringing my mother into this. And she would have
called me! I am positive! She was not the kind of person to forget
her responsibility - she would have called me to tell me she was alright,
so I wouldn't hurt no more...
I don't like it!
Imagine your mother never called you in all the time she was "dead"
to you, and yesterday I proved without a doubt that she was alive.
Today you get a phone call. It's from... I don't know who it's from,
but this person tells you that your mother has just died... for real.
This is cruel - I don't wanna...
No, listen! Yesterday your mother comes back to life, and with her
resurrection all your memories of life together - but you only have
memories to span those 5 years she was "dead", remember! And today...
Why are you doing this!?
... she vanishes for real, leaving a gap of 5 years, in which she
never stopped being your mother, even though she had never been less
your mother, ever!
I... think I lost my way...
What... what you are saying is... when... she died or when I
thought she died... When I thought she died, when she vanished as
a person to... as my mother to meet and touch or just to talk to over
the phone, she also stopped being someone I knew. And when I got her
back - if ever so briefly...
... You could not possibly know her, even if you could meet and hug
and talk - she would be a total alien. From how she behaved. Just
that she was alive.
You mean, from doing something I could not have predicted - like playing
dead for 5 years and then... Ok, I acknowledge you didn't mention
anything about her contacting me - you just said "evidence proved"
or something like that. But still, I totally disagree. And what you're
saying is exactly opposite to what you said before.
What was that?
You said... that... you could not imagine... now, how did you frase
it?... the existance of your grandmother in your life without knowing
her - without being aware of who she was. In effect you said, if she
No, I didn't say that.
What...? You didn't say what?
All I said was that if I was to pretend that I didn't feel anything
for my grandmother - or had not gotten around to the feeling yet,
I believe you frased it - then I would have to be very young. So,
I didn't know what I felt - or rather wasn't aware there was anything
beyond what I felt...
But that's my point!
Waddayamean - what is your point!? You haven't made any!
I'm the one trying to...
Look! Look! I... no, see that ship out there? That one there!? Yes.
We both agree it's there. And if I wasn't here and you were standing
there on your own, looking at the sea, looking at the water, looking
at fucking seagulls, and that ship sailed into your peripheral vision,
could you ignore it? Could you claim it was a different ship from
the one we're looking at now, if in fact it was the same ship...
Yes, I know what you're gonna say. And... if you imagine being in
the same situation as now, except I was not here. Can you imagine
that? Would it be the same ship? I say it is!
There is no argument in the world that can sway me from the fact that
I care about my grandmother - because I know she has lived, and because
she is dead. All I have to care about are the things I know, and I
know what I know, what I believe my knowledge to be, nothing more,
nothing less. And my knowledge is also that I care. It's an infinite
loop. She's not here to correct me. You can't correct me. My mother
can't correct me, memory can't correct me - I am my memory.
But is it the same ship?
What do you think?
I think - if we imagine the same situation, and you were suddenly
not there, and that was ok and part of the equation - then yes: It's
the same ship.
But then everything is of the same value. And then value has no meaning.
And then nothing means anything. If that is the same ship in my "equation",
you'ld be dead.
But what if I am?
What do you mean?
There is not a day were I don't think of my mother. Not a day I...
where I don't hear her smile, or laugh at some silly joke, or... complain
about the fruits and vegetables in the supermarked and... I don't
think I doze off any night without picturing what she'ld be doing
the next day, if she had only lived. It's futile to imagine her dead.
It's I who're dead. Me.
What's it like to be dead? I mean... as a real question...
(shorter, but still long pause)
Dead is dead! That ship out there...? Do you care about that ship?
Yes, I care.
I don't. I don't care where it's going, I don't care what it's carrying,
where it's coming from, who's waiting for it, who's preparing dinner
for homecoming sailors, I don't care about sailors longing to be home,
or about children waiting or asking where dad is - I don't care. And
why not? 'Cause I'm not on it! How can I care? I'm dead! My eyes are
dead, the sea is dead, the ship is dead, everybody's dead. You're
dead! Dead is dead!
Does that mean... does that mean you don't hurt? No feelings, no...?
I mean, it doesn't sound like...
No, but it's dead feeling.
You don't care?
No, but it's dead care. Like... if I was hit by a car, and it went
really bad, I would probably wake up screaming with pain, and like
everybody else fervently wish it would go away, but I wouldn't care;
I wouldn't even think to differentiate between physical death and
continued function of heart and brain - everybody else would thank
whoever for their return to normality, when the pain stopped, but
I wouldn't thank anybody. Or anything. I don't care - but I do. But
in a sense where it doesn't matter. Don't you understand. I am dead
- the world is dead.
You are very much alive to me. As is my grandmother, in exactly the
same sense of life and living as you use death to describe your point
of view. You are vital and exploring, battling for your every breath,
inhaling the world like it could end if you stopped breathing - and
maybe it would end! Not just your world, but the whole world! I have
no way of knowing. And in that sense you are very important. You are
the world. I can only feel it...
But I don't care! I don't want to...
... but you - you...!